Ancestry Message Boards Boards > Localities > United Kingdom and Ireland > England > Leicestershire > General
from my mail:-
Hullo Xxxx
where are you located?
In Canada ?
all is not lost because
there are three likely primary sources you have not touched
all the sources you quote are secondary or worse being created by clerks copying each other at the time and transcribers today each layer introducing more and more errors of well known types.
please read these URL carefully
(saves me typing FAQ)
"A Comedy of Errors" or The Marriage Records of England and Wales 1837-1899. The ISBN is 0-473-05581-3.
The story of the civil registration of births, marriages and deaths in England and Wales in the 1800s,
by
Michael Whitfield Foster
This Web site aims to help people tracing their family history by explaining the usage of the different entries on birth, marriage, and death certificates throughout the history of birth registration in England and Wales.
You can obtain your certificates from one of two sources
From the General Register Office <<- secondary source
see
From the local Register Office <<<- your primary source
use genuki
parish registers will record his christening if his parents were christian
3 groups
church of england
- location in church office or county record office
non conformist
(note baptists do not christen children ) - and on the map there is a Netherleach baptist chapel too.
Roman Catholic - was a mission church and records may be in the manse, a record office or arch dioecesan archives
May be lost or destroyed and some are neither filmed nor deposited but still under the control of the vicar and parish council
see the parish chest but the best stuff is not online or even filmed :-(
I do not know if bishops transcripts were made at this time
- a secondary source anyway
TNA also has some registers
in a message dated 30/04/2004 15:08:48 GMT Standard Time, xxxx@netscape.net writes:
I am seeking the date and location of my grandfather's marriage in order to obtain a copy of his marriage certificate.
I have found him at the age of three in the 1881 UK census,
tertiary source
but it is irritating that you, a stranger, do not quote the entry as a whole
- more work for me to repeat your search <.sigh.>
have you looked at the images?
these are NOT a primary source because that has been destroyed
(the census takers note books)
============================================
Dwelling: Woodside
Census Place: Seals, Leicester, England
Source: FHL Film 1341748 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 3139 Folio 6 Page 3
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
William C. SHAKESPEARE M 35 M Netherseal, Leicester, England
Rel: Head
Occ: Farmer 250 Acres < < < < < < < < < < < < owner or tenant ?
Hannah SHAKESPEARE M 30 F Norbury, Derby, England
Rel: Wife
Occ: Farmers Wife
William W.C. SHAKESPEARE U 3 M Netherseal, Leicester, England
Rel: Son
Occ: Farmers Son < < < < < <strong> this is an occupation . . a job !!! ??? AGE transcription error ??? LOL
Charles J.W. SHAKESPEARE U 1 M Netherseal, Leicester, England
Rel: Son
Occ: Infant
John SHAKESPEARE W 68 M Stockport, Cheshire, England
Rel: Father
Occ: Retired Shoe Maker < employee or employer search trade directories from 1830 on
Emma MITCHELL U 19 F Witherley, Warwick, England
Rel: Servant
Occ: Domestic Servant (*COULD* BE distant FAMILY)
Samuel MEADOWS U 18 M Melbourne, Derby, England
Rel: Servant
Occ: Farm Servant Indoor (*COULD* BE distant FAMILY)
from FamilySearch Internet Genealogy Service
======================
use http://www.old-maps.co.uk
for locations
Netherseal
County: LEICESTERSHIRE Date :1887 Grid Ref: 428500,313500
that was easy
note the church is called St Peter's Netherseal and pictures
Grangewood Lodge is situated close to the villages of Overseal, Netherseal and Lullington. Burton upon Trent is approximately 7 miles to the north whilst Ashby-de-la-Zouch is approximately 7 miles to the east of the home. Close proximity of the A444 ensures easy access for visitors.
Find us by taking the Lullington Road out of Overseal. Follow the Lullington Road to Grangewood Lodge. <<
Private Residential and Day Care for the Elderley ยด[sic]
Grangewood Lodge
Lullington Road
Nr. Netherseal
Swadlincote
Derbyshire
DE12 8BH
Telephone: (01827) 373577
or (01889) 565284
the farm is here
County: LEICESTERSHIRE Date :1887 Grid Ref: 427935,313099
- I clicked to recenter
note 427935,313099 very carefully and enter it in http://streetmap.co.uk
OS grid (x,y)
and you see it is off Clifton Road on the northern side.
zoom out
River Mease
I bet you ancestors went fisihing and swimming as children
AAH ! otters and archealogy :-)
post code (zip code)
DE12 8BH good in maps ang google and especially http://www.multimap.com
Address: DE128BH
X:426500m Y:314000m lat: 52:43:24N (52.7234) lon: 1:36:33W (-1.6093) (Postcode) Grid Ref:SK264140(accurate to 100 metres)
one in 25 000 shows farm names today
Address:
X:429000m Y:314000m lat: 52:43:22N (52.7229) lon: 1:34:19W (-1.5721) (Map Centre) Grid Ref:SK290140(accurate to 100 metres)
shows some of the names on oldmaps
100 000 shows the relationship to Ashby
===========================
you wrote "however I can not find him in the 1891 census. I have searched some of the microfiche at the local LDS Family History Centre with no luck."
which fiche? always list sources
what finding aids did you use?
did he migrate ?
where and when?
Thus, I have hit a bit of a wall when searching for his marriage information. To this date, I have obtained the following information: Grandfather's Name: William Walker Carey Shakespeare (also spelled as Shakespear)
spelling variation is irrelevant and to be expected
in the UK you may change your name infomallly to this day
read and print out http://shakespeareauthorship.com/name1.html
DOB: 1878 - registered in the first quarter of 1878. Parents were sometimes lmor than 6 weeks late in contacting the and lied about the date of birth to avoid the fine for late reporting.
migration direct or indirect
what records ?
last sighting in England and first in Canada ?
gaps may mean a period in a third country or in prison for example, or military service.
(just as in checking a CV today if you are an employer)
Died: 1962 - Canada Australian dreath certificates have considerable detail - as told by the informant.
Location of birth: Ashby de la Zouch (location was found in the LDS Family History Centre records - << again precise sources ? - many name brothers. . and even guesswok in older records
however the 1981 UK census records him as born in Netherseal, Leicester.
well that is where the family farm was so no surprise
his wedding may well be in his brides parents parish or
or even living together if one of them was married and not divorced
My mother's memory places him in Ashby as well. '
did she meet him ?
how old was she then ?
Parents: William C. & Hannah Shakespeare of Netherseal, Leicester.
Siblings: Samuel......I am only aware of this g.uncle through family recollections, this individual however, does not appear in the 1881 census (perhaps born later).
Another sibling named Charles J.W. Shakespeare does appear in the 1881 census, but he is unknown to my family.
look for an infant death Despite the presence of an unknown sibling, I am confident that I have identified the correct information regarding my grandfather.
**My grandfather married Elizabeth Marie (sometimes spelled Maria) Hunt. DOB is 1879 or 1880. Elizabeth died in 1969 in Canada. My mother tells me that she was also referred to as Eliza, so I can not be certain of her registered birth name. All searches to locate my grandmother in the records up until now, have not been successful.
Other miscellaneous information includes the following: My uncle Harry was born in Ashby de la Zouch in approx. 1907 or 1908.
get his birth certificate
My grandparents emigrated to Canada
why ?
exact DATE ?
when Harry was an infant - their next child was born in Canada in 1910. From this I have deduced that they must have left England in 1908-1910.
I have very little else to go on at this time.
the best matierial is NOT repeat NOT on line
but you have hardly touched the tip of the iceberg
follow the money trail
farmers paid tithes and taxes
You better read some books on english genealogy
the help leaflets at TNA
family search help pages
My elderly mother and aunt are the only remaining relatives and, while thankfully long lived, their memories are sketchy at best.
read up on how to interview older peopel
how to stimulate them with photographs
colours , smells for example
I am also dealing with some time constraints at the moment.
concentrate on family and recorsing living memories before they die
written records are not going anywhere and can wait
even for your children to take up the hobby as family historian
as you see this email provides an entrance to the English records
once you have located all your direct g or gg parents in 1881
the rest is routine detective work
Above all organise the family photographs
write in back in pencil date place occaision names in soft pencil
ink fades and harms
google to any page on safe storage
acid free
no light
low tempersature
no albums no plastic
use copies for display
and digitally distribute on CD
googleup to 10 words to find more info
Any help you could offer to locate this information would be most gratefully appreciated.
as a professional it would be very expensive
involving travel and hotel and other expenses
with fees and no guarantee of results
I would normally ask a $500 advance
THIS IS NOT AN ADVERTISEMENT BUT A "PUT OFF "
I advise you do take your time and do it yourself
records are being transcribed and indexed all the time
Use the message boards
the Leicestershire FHS
(click on Links & Announcements )
Board : Boards > Localities > United Kingdom and Ireland > England > Leicestershire > General
no time for more
got to go to LIDL Boots Safeway NOW !!!
blog to be edited for hot links later -- DONE
enjoy
Hugh W
--
Danish genealogy - dansk genealogi
now were was I ? 1891
Shakespear, William 9 months, Thringstone, Leicestershire Son Thringstone Leicestershire
Shakespeare, William 43 Colerton, Leicestershire Head Tibshelf Derbyshire
Shakespeare, William 53 Ashley-de-ca zouch, Leicestershire Head Aston Warwickshire
1891 England Census
Viewing records 21-40 of 216 matches for:
William in civil parish
Over and Nether Seal Leicestershire
nothing likely
lost in typoland or in Canada already ?
1901 Census of England and Wales Online
here civil parish
Netherseal Entire
William Sharpe 10 Derbyshire Nether Seal Derby Netherseal Entire
William Sharpe 42 Leicester Blackfordby Derby Netherseal Entire Coal Miner Hewer
now that's a new idea searched sha*
I think they are long gone !
from my mail:-
Hullo Xxxx
where are you located?
In Canada ?
all is not lost because
there are three likely primary sources you have not touched
all the sources you quote are secondary or worse being created by clerks copying each other at the time and transcribers today each layer introducing more and more errors of well known types.
please read these URL carefully
(saves me typing FAQ)
"A Comedy of Errors" or The Marriage Records of England and Wales 1837-1899. The ISBN is 0-473-05581-3.
The story of the civil registration of births, marriages and deaths in England and Wales in the 1800s,
by
Michael Whitfield Foster
This Web site aims to help people tracing their family history by explaining the usage of the different entries on birth, marriage, and death certificates throughout the history of birth registration in England and Wales.
You can obtain your certificates from one of two sources
From the General Register Office <<- secondary source
see
From the local Register Office <<<- your primary source
use genuki
parish registers will record his christening if his parents were christian
3 groups
church of england
- location in church office or county record office
non conformist
(note baptists do not christen children ) - and on the map there is a Netherleach baptist chapel too.
Roman Catholic - was a mission church and records may be in the manse, a record office or arch dioecesan archives
May be lost or destroyed and some are neither filmed nor deposited but still under the control of the vicar and parish council
see the parish chest but the best stuff is not online or even filmed :-(
I do not know if bishops transcripts were made at this time
- a secondary source anyway
TNA also has some registers
in a message dated 30/04/2004 15:08:48 GMT Standard Time, xxxx@netscape.net writes:
I am seeking the date and location of my grandfather's marriage in order to obtain a copy of his marriage certificate.
I have found him at the age of three in the 1881 UK census,
tertiary source
but it is irritating that you, a stranger, do not quote the entry as a whole
- more work for me to repeat your search <.sigh.>
have you looked at the images?
these are NOT a primary source because that has been destroyed
(the census takers note books)
============================================
Dwelling: Woodside
Census Place: Seals, Leicester, England
Source: FHL Film 1341748 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 3139 Folio 6 Page 3
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
William C. SHAKESPEARE M 35 M Netherseal, Leicester, England
Rel: Head
Occ: Farmer 250 Acres < < < < < < < < < < < < owner or tenant ?
Hannah SHAKESPEARE M 30 F Norbury, Derby, England
Rel: Wife
Occ: Farmers Wife
William W.C. SHAKESPEARE U 3 M Netherseal, Leicester, England
Rel: Son
Occ: Farmers Son < < < < < <strong> this is an occupation . . a job !!! ??? AGE transcription error ??? LOL
Charles J.W. SHAKESPEARE U 1 M Netherseal, Leicester, England
Rel: Son
Occ: Infant
John SHAKESPEARE W 68 M Stockport, Cheshire, England
Rel: Father
Occ: Retired Shoe Maker < employee or employer search trade directories from 1830 on
Emma MITCHELL U 19 F Witherley, Warwick, England
Rel: Servant
Occ: Domestic Servant (*COULD* BE distant FAMILY)
Samuel MEADOWS U 18 M Melbourne, Derby, England
Rel: Servant
Occ: Farm Servant Indoor (*COULD* BE distant FAMILY)
from FamilySearch Internet Genealogy Service
======================
use http://www.old-maps.co.uk
for locations
Netherseal
County: LEICESTERSHIRE Date :1887 Grid Ref: 428500,313500
that was easy
note the church is called St Peter's Netherseal and pictures
Grangewood Lodge is situated close to the villages of Overseal, Netherseal and Lullington. Burton upon Trent is approximately 7 miles to the north whilst Ashby-de-la-Zouch is approximately 7 miles to the east of the home. Close proximity of the A444 ensures easy access for visitors.
Find us by taking the Lullington Road out of Overseal. Follow the Lullington Road to Grangewood Lodge. <<
Private Residential and Day Care for the Elderley ยด[sic]
Grangewood Lodge
Lullington Road
Nr. Netherseal
Swadlincote
Derbyshire
DE12 8BH
Telephone: (01827) 373577
or (01889) 565284
the farm is here
County: LEICESTERSHIRE Date :1887 Grid Ref: 427935,313099
- I clicked to recenter
note 427935,313099 very carefully and enter it in http://streetmap.co.uk
OS grid (x,y)
and you see it is off Clifton Road on the northern side.
zoom out
River Mease
I bet you ancestors went fisihing and swimming as children
AAH ! otters and archealogy :-)
post code (zip code)
DE12 8BH good in maps ang google and especially http://www.multimap.com
Address: DE128BH
X:426500m Y:314000m lat: 52:43:24N (52.7234) lon: 1:36:33W (-1.6093) (Postcode) Grid Ref:SK264140(accurate to 100 metres)
one in 25 000 shows farm names today
Address:
X:429000m Y:314000m lat: 52:43:22N (52.7229) lon: 1:34:19W (-1.5721) (Map Centre) Grid Ref:SK290140(accurate to 100 metres)
shows some of the names on oldmaps
100 000 shows the relationship to Ashby
===========================
you wrote "however I can not find him in the 1891 census. I have searched some of the microfiche at the local LDS Family History Centre with no luck."
which fiche? always list sources
what finding aids did you use?
did he migrate ?
where and when?
Thus, I have hit a bit of a wall when searching for his marriage information. To this date, I have obtained the following information: Grandfather's Name: William Walker Carey Shakespeare (also spelled as Shakespear)
spelling variation is irrelevant and to be expected
in the UK you may change your name infomallly to this day
read and print out http://shakespeareauthorship.com/name1.html
DOB: 1878 - registered in the first quarter of 1878. Parents were sometimes lmor than 6 weeks late in contacting the and lied about the date of birth to avoid the fine for late reporting.
migration direct or indirect
what records ?
last sighting in England and first in Canada ?
gaps may mean a period in a third country or in prison for example, or military service.
(just as in checking a CV today if you are an employer)
Died: 1962 - Canada Australian dreath certificates have considerable detail - as told by the informant.
Location of birth: Ashby de la Zouch (location was found in the LDS Family History Centre records - << again precise sources ? - many name brothers. . and even guesswok in older records
however the 1981 UK census records him as born in Netherseal, Leicester.
well that is where the family farm was so no surprise
his wedding may well be in his brides parents parish or
or even living together if one of them was married and not divorced
My mother's memory places him in Ashby as well. '
did she meet him ?
how old was she then ?
Parents: William C. & Hannah Shakespeare of Netherseal, Leicester.
Siblings: Samuel......I am only aware of this g.uncle through family recollections, this individual however, does not appear in the 1881 census (perhaps born later).
Another sibling named Charles J.W. Shakespeare does appear in the 1881 census, but he is unknown to my family.
look for an infant death Despite the presence of an unknown sibling, I am confident that I have identified the correct information regarding my grandfather.
**My grandfather married Elizabeth Marie (sometimes spelled Maria) Hunt. DOB is 1879 or 1880. Elizabeth died in 1969 in Canada. My mother tells me that she was also referred to as Eliza, so I can not be certain of her registered birth name. All searches to locate my grandmother in the records up until now, have not been successful.
Other miscellaneous information includes the following: My uncle Harry was born in Ashby de la Zouch in approx. 1907 or 1908.
get his birth certificate
My grandparents emigrated to Canada
why ?
exact DATE ?
when Harry was an infant - their next child was born in Canada in 1910. From this I have deduced that they must have left England in 1908-1910.
I have very little else to go on at this time.
the best matierial is NOT repeat NOT on line
but you have hardly touched the tip of the iceberg
follow the money trail
farmers paid tithes and taxes
You better read some books on english genealogy
the help leaflets at TNA
family search help pages
My elderly mother and aunt are the only remaining relatives and, while thankfully long lived, their memories are sketchy at best.
read up on how to interview older peopel
how to stimulate them with photographs
colours , smells for example
I am also dealing with some time constraints at the moment.
concentrate on family and recorsing living memories before they die
written records are not going anywhere and can wait
even for your children to take up the hobby as family historian
as you see this email provides an entrance to the English records
once you have located all your direct g or gg parents in 1881
the rest is routine detective work
Above all organise the family photographs
write in back in pencil date place occaision names in soft pencil
ink fades and harms
google to any page on safe storage
acid free
no light
low tempersature
no albums no plastic
use copies for display
and digitally distribute on CD
googleup to 10 words to find more info
Any help you could offer to locate this information would be most gratefully appreciated.
as a professional it would be very expensive
involving travel and hotel and other expenses
with fees and no guarantee of results
I would normally ask a $500 advance
THIS IS NOT AN ADVERTISEMENT BUT A "PUT OFF "
I advise you do take your time and do it yourself
records are being transcribed and indexed all the time
Use the message boards
the Leicestershire FHS
(click on Links & Announcements )
Board : Boards > Localities > United Kingdom and Ireland > England > Leicestershire > General
no time for more
got to go to LIDL Boots Safeway NOW !!!
blog to be edited for hot links later -- DONE
enjoy
Hugh W
--
Danish genealogy - dansk genealogi
now were was I ? 1891
Shakespear, William 9 months, Thringstone, Leicestershire Son Thringstone Leicestershire
Shakespeare, William 43 Colerton, Leicestershire Head Tibshelf Derbyshire
Shakespeare, William 53 Ashley-de-ca zouch, Leicestershire Head Aston Warwickshire
1891 England Census
Viewing records 21-40 of 216 matches for:
William in civil parish
Over and Nether Seal Leicestershire
nothing likely
lost in typoland or in Canada already ?
1901 Census of England and Wales Online
here civil parish
Netherseal Entire
William Sharpe 10 Derbyshire Nether Seal Derby Netherseal Entire
William Sharpe 42 Leicester Blackfordby Derby Netherseal Entire Coal Miner Hewer
now that's a new idea searched sha*
I think they are long gone !
posted by Hugh W at 9:01 am
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